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Friday, August 22, 2014

Is HF on the comeback? I think so!

Expertise in critical government and commercial communication systems sales, delivery and supportTop Contributor
Minimum infrastructure requirements + advanced HF technology + available spectrum = reliable disaster communications

Comments

  • Susantha R.
    Susantha
    Susantha R.
    Manager -Technical Division at Dynacom Electronics Pvt Ltd
    Yes I agree with u. Even with data communication.
  • James
    James J.
    Regional VHF Specialist The Americas at SITA
    Why do you say that Marvin. HF equipment is not liked by operators, is too clunky for most operations and expensive compared to other technologies available. Datacom is really a bust for HF, it is far too slow for todays needs.
  • Michael L.
    Michael
    Michael L.
    RF Field Technician with Nashville Communications
    BS James. In an emergency, I can get email from anywhere in the world via HF and 100 watts. I have an FT-450 and it is small and portable, and user friendly. Big and clunky, you must still have Collins gear or maybe Heathkit? HF you can talk around the world for cheap compared to most " modern " VHF or UHF radios.
  • Rob M.
    Rob
    Rob M.
    Police Enquiry Center Officer
    You missed the point James. HF doesnt need infrastructure to work point to point.
  • Marvin I.
    Marvin
    Marvin I.
    Expertise in critical government and commercial communication systems sales, delivery and support
    Top Contributor
    That is the point Rob! HF can cover vast areas with minimum infrastructure. Moreover, the use of ALE and advanced HF technology can make calls seamless, automatic AND much more reliable!
  • James
    James J.
    Regional VHF Specialist The Americas at SITA
    I don't see the need for BS. However HF for simple voice comms in an emergency no problem but in a commercial environment HF offers little value for money, airlines are removing HF equipment form aircraft, ARINC is looking to sell their HF network and for data the speed is not there against alternatives. I have worked with HF a lot over the years and honestly 100 watts doesn't get you around the world reliably. My point was that I don't see an overriding business case to move from VHF and Satcomm to HF.
  • Abdulla
    Abdulla G.
    Communications Manager
    HF is needed where ever there is no infrastucture and vsat is expensive , like SAHARA area
  • Pete R.
    Pete
    Pete R.
    Adjunct Instructor at Victor Valley College
    Satellites can fail or be disabled by external forces. HF does work well, if the expertise in the field can be restored. However, in today's world most of the HF communication is being done by Amatuer radio operators. Perhaps we should begin using the HF spectrum more frequently in order to have a contingency communication plan in the event of a large satellite failure.
  • Clement D.
    Clement
    Clement D.
    Radio Systems Engineering at RigSat
    I may be bias to HF any having work with it for many year with the military and the oil and gas industry. For short to long range communications without paying satellite fees; HF radio I feel is the answer. At sea the very reliable HF direct wave will carry for hundreds of miles. Once you have your system and antenna set up; your only fee in most places in the world is the licence cost to use the radio channel. HF with the proper planning can be set up quick to support military and disaster recovery. In most cases terrain does not dictate location; like for a satellite were building and hills can block the signal. HF will pass data; and I have personally worked with HF data to support flight tracking and dispatching aircraft; again it does work and provides a cost saving to the operator by not having to use satellite. While the speeds are not T1; but HF does and will support good quality date. Anyway here is a link to a radio that can fit in a passage car.http://www.codanradio.com/product/envoy/
  • Kurt S.
    Kurt
    Kurt S.
    Director Business Development, Marketing
    HF is coming back. Not to long ago I sat in a briefing at the SOCOM trade show down in Tampa, Florida and heard the head of SOCOM speaking. In view of the ability of a few nations to shoot down/disable our satellites and corrupt the internet HF is the only other beyond line of sight method of passing voice and data. The big three HF OEM's have already increased the throughput by using more spectrum per channel. I've heard they can get 115bps throughput and by now it is most likely higher. With this new antennas are and have been designed for HF. Of course there are many more reasons for HF to come back but this is just a shorty.
  • John L.
    John
    John L.
    Field Service Technician at ADSL
    hard to inject annoying advertisements, hence no interest from big money and hard future
  • Jorn J.
    Jorn
    Jorn J.
    Chief Technology Officer at Danimex Communication
    I think there always will be a need for HF to complement other communication modes. Modern HF radios offer the user a range of features that makes it easy to use HF.
  • Martin B.
    Martin
    Martin B.
    Technical Editor at Silverspring Publishing
    By using frequencies below about 10Mhz and antennas set up for NVIS you have a range up to 600 miles as well as in to valleys. Therefore there is still life in HF communications for groups like the Emergency Services
  • Clement D.
    Clement
    Clement D.
    Radio Systems Engineering at RigSat
    Another point I wanted to make is that; small countries with operating military organizations; don’t have to depend on other countries for satellite communications. HF radio gives them a cheap means of long range communications and autonomy. Sorry about my link in my last comment; search "Codan HF radios"; should get you to their site.
  • Terry G.
    Terry
    Terry G.
    Professional appropriate Digital and analogue Radio communications System planning with long term PNG experience
    In countries where I live like PNG it is the only reliable low cost alternative. VsAT and sat phone costs are high and not always reliable in high rainfall areas. Properly set up and with the modern enhancements, IP connectivity and digital voice it's a winner
  • Arnaldo R.
    Arnaldo
    Arnaldo R.
    Sales Team Manager at North America Panorama Antennas Inc.
    Very interesting, thanks for posting this.
  • Theo K.
    Theo
    Theo K.
    Account Manager - Icom Australia
    You're quite correct there Marvin and Kurt.
    There are business cases for VHF equipment and satellite/microwave to replace outdated HF gear, and it os exactly that, OUTDATED. James you seem to miss the pount that todays HF equipment with the capabilities introduced is a far cry from the equipment you know.
    And of course the airlines and larger corporations will gladly burn their $$$ on satellite bandwidth and supporting infrastructure when it is marketed and sold so well.
    As for the clunkyness, again that's so old and outdated from the days an operater had to go through many steps to get a call out. Now it's a single button press, far easier than relying on a satellite passover or even awaiting for time allocation on a geo.
    HF is for the companies that consider communications vital to their organisation in times where anything above 130MHz and into the microwave bands requires so much more infrastructure to make it work. By all means, we're happy to interface reliable HF equipment to any equipment using any clunky interfaces anyone needs, just make sure your equipment stays up.
  • Nzola S.
    Nzola
    Nzola S.
    Electronics Repair/RMA Technician
    I had used HF radios sending data in Africa. We called the system Radio-Email. I connected one village to the rest of the world using this system. The village was in Mozambique without iInternet, but it would connect to the radio gateway station in onother country (Zambia) via HF to find internet. About 900 Kms in distance. The laptop in Mozambique had a user software and the one in Zambia had server or gateway software. Data transfer was slow, but it workrd and saved many lives.
  • Syed A.
    Syed
    Syed A.
    Radio System Engineer at MARAFIQ
    HF cannot be out, it always has its place. Now with the reduce size and more functions add privileges to the user's. This is the most vital & cheap part of any military in time of war and peace.
  • Gregg P.
    Gregg
    Gregg P.
    FleetTalk.net, Wireless Solutions (Signal Amplifiers, VoIP, Interoperability), Public Safety & Two-way Communications
    Marvin, thanks for the great starter topic and Clement, thank you for the link. I, for one, thought HF was all but dead as very few -- I can think of two -- use HF in our area. I intend to research this a bit more.
  • Ralph P. B.
    Ralph P.
    Ralph P. B.
    Managing Consultant, testadvance pty/ltd
    Thanks for a good topic. HF will always have its place, it comes down to physics as previous commentators have already mentioned. I agree Theo, modern HF radios are a far cry from being clunky and outdated. If anything, the fact that a substantial amount of such 'outdated' infrastructure is still around just shows that HF is still a valid and useful technology. It obviously does not have the same market share as UHF/VHF or digital, and I couldn't say whether or not it is making a come-back, that depends on how you measure it. But to rule HF out is either simply wrong, or more likely, a case of vested interests. We've done a fair amount of work around integrating different radio formats via RoIP. Once comm's are in the IP realm, it doesn't matter to the voice transport whether it's HF, UHF/VHF, analogue or digital. The operator on a console really doesn't care that much about what the physical radio is. The user in the field though, cares very much about whether the signal actually gets through. That at the end of the day is still paramount. It seems to me that sometimes that gets taken for granted and all focus is on bandwidth and data... but heh, that's just me.
  • Bob D.
    Bob
    Bob D.
    Western Regional Sales at Nevada Solar Designs
    HF turbidity as a communication medium mandates superior operator skills and peripheral modulation formats. While tedious, a basic HF SSB/CW radio and dipole antenna provides a successful local and international multipoint information exchange platform. ALE and digital processing formats (ie.Lincompex and Clover) create quality voice and data comm links for those with "push the button" expertise.

    My field day QRZ log is offered as QRP operational proof of station simplicity. Powered by a solar maintained battery, my Yaesu FT890 @ 5w output, using a LinkMate syllabic compressor for USB mode and Cushcraft vertical plowed thru pileup conflation.
    Oh yeah, with zero operational cost across the two days.

    Sadly my LinkMate's Lincompex features remain operationally muted as "it takes two to tango" for entrapping HF link noise. HF is far from dead. Our local CERT/VFD team even maintains an HF station complimenting the county 2way and 900 MHz repeater systems.
  • Rob M.
    Rob
    Rob M.
    Police Enquiry Center Officer
    Bob can I borrow your dictionary? :-)
  • Gregg P.
    Gregg
    Gregg P.
    FleetTalk.net, Wireless Solutions (Signal Amplifiers, VoIP, Interoperability), Public Safety & Two-way Communications
    To group, per Bob Damrau's comment, "Ditto. What he said!"

    I learn more stuff that I never knew, and may never understand, on group discussions like this one! ;-)

    Truthfully, Bob, very well stated.
  • Bob D.
    Bob
    Bob D.
    Western Regional Sales at Nevada Solar Designs
    Thanks for the positive feedback Greg.
    Rob, Webster online D&T is a toolbar favorite.
    Couldn't possibly put thoughts together without it!!!!

    I do most of NVSD's content for website and social media Blogs, articles, presentations etc.
    While interesting it's certainly a dual edged opportunity sword.
    LMK when we've aligned project opportunities.
  • Clement D.
    Clement
    Clement D.
    Radio Systems Engineering at RigSat
    Thank you Marvin; this forum has got me thinking about another option to extend radio coverage beyond the range of VHF and UHF. Here in Northern Alberta; there are many small oil and gas field operators. These oil and gas fields sometimes are spread over geographical areas too large to be covered by one VHF/UHF radio repeater. What are your options to complete this radio coverage requirement?
    1) MSat; (Mobile Satellite) cost to buy and operate just turns my clients off
    2) More radio repeaters; cost towers and infrastructure plus only usable in limited areas
    3) Bi-directional amplifiers; cost towers and infrastructure plus only usable in limited areas
    4) High Frequency Radio with email; ALE; selective calling; IP; and good system design???
    Looking at cost to benefit; a professional High Frequency Radio installed into the mostly 1 ton 4 X 4 crew cab pick-up truck oil field service vehicles; could be economically attractive. This is when compared to the cost to build and operate items 1 through 3; and it would not take up any more space than any other large land mobile radio. The main objective is to be able to communicate when outside the range of VHF and UHF radio frequencies. With the proper design and using the advance technologies available; HF may make economic sense for voice, email, low speed data, SCADA, and other remote monitoring functions.
  • Theo K.
    Theo
    Theo K.
    Account Manager - Icom Australia
    Good question Clement and I'm sure someone with experience closer to you will be able to give you a good propsal.
    Oil, Gas, Coal, and a number of other mines require have certain requirements for equipment to be of a minimum Intrinsically Safe certification. So when selecting the equipment, ensure what mode of communication is required at each intersection not only operationally but for Occupational Health & Safety standards. They do vary from country to country, state to state.
  • Mark H.
    Mark
    Mark H.
    Field Service Engineer at nGeneration
    Great discussion everyone!
    I firmly believe HF has earned it place in the cosmos worthily, and when you need comms instantly HF is always there!
  • Kurt S.
    Kurt
    Kurt S.
    Director Business Development, Marketing
    Nice set up Bob on the low power portable HF system. Since you are QRZ smart you can check out KJ4AYT pictures. Clement has a typical scenario that HF excels at. I have set up many purpose driven nets on HF (soup to nuts) to fit requirements like his. When cost and recurring costs are a factor and primary means are to expensive HF shines like a star. There are many uses that HF is being considered for or is now being used for to get data and voice out at a less expensive cost. Once the initial costs have been incurred it is simply an issue of maintaining the system, unlike other means where you have the continuing costs of data usage. I've seen HF being used for offshore weather on buoy's, mining in remote areas of the world, pagers on HF, emergency communications for hospitals, an more. Militarily the interest in revitalizing HF has been for DF, portable for small groups of soldiers outside the range of harm while establishing communications in jungle and high terrain operations both ground to ground and ground to air, and for fleet operations where groups of ships are separated by more miles than line of sight can operate. Although my comments are general I'm sure there are those who can read between the lines. There are so many situations where using HF is both more stealthy, more useful, and a better low cost solution than has been considered before. Extremely high data rates can be achieved these days along with the technical advancements being made to make HF a solution for more and more situations. The weak point is that with the asttention to other technology advances for high data throughput, the attention to training operators in the set up and use of HF has fallen away. Not many of the military and government entities teach it anymore and many of the people with expertise in HF have retired. What is being tapped as a source of knowledge is the Amateur Radio groups for that expertise these days. It is remarkable that the US has so much in the form of HF equipment that is not being used and just as much that is. While the highly funded military organizations lean heavily on the higher throughput equipment other services make use of the HF spectrum and do it extremely well. Case in point is CAP and the US Coast Guard. Not understanding HF at the higher levels of Government is also an issue. I have given briefings where I was stopped to address a problem only to find out that from the USD's spent to purchase HF equipment little to none was spent on antenna's. And they couldn't understand why it wasn't working for them.

    Kurt
  • Kurt S.
    Kurt
    Kurt S.
    Director Business Development, Marketing
    An afterthought, another great place for HF is in the high Northern and Southern climates where Satcom doesn't work very well. That should appeal to Clement.
  • Kurt S.
    Kurt
    Kurt S.
    Director Business Development, Marketing
    For those who would like to see an ALE net that is world wide in operation go to www.hflink.net and you can see instant updates from stations sounding around the world. You will also see their locations and there is a chat room if you have questions. Many radio operators try their had at ALE with free software that is PC driven called PCALE. It is not perfect but it works well. MARS combines it with a PC to operate their ALE nets, teach Ham radio volunteer's about ALE and as a capability to operate with military and government units. Some MARS operators have second hand HFALE radios and don't have to use the PC ALE controller but its a great way to learn all about ALE.
  • Rob M.
    Rob
    Rob M.
    Police Enquiry Center Officer
    One aspect of HF equipment particularly with regard to emergency communications is that much equipment is very flexible and will connect between users regardless of location or organisation. HF can be used between aviation, marine, mobile and land based installations presently equipped without modification dependant only on frequency allocation and collaboration, conditions and operator training.
  • Kurt S.
    Kurt
    Kurt S.
    Director Business Development, Marketing
    Very true Rob, and on the military/govt side they use encryption and modems for privacy in their data and voice connects. Cross banding can be an issue with encryption but can be overcome.
  • Bob D.
    Bob
    Bob D.
    Western Regional Sales at Nevada Solar Designs
    Kurt thanks for sharing your QRZ page. Very impressive, informative and certainly demonstrates the capabilities of HF as a communication medium. We've some mutual territorial dirt/water experiences differing by operational magnitude yet each providing mission value pieces. Memories of Lincompex presentation /demo before several dozen non english speaking Indonesian military/govt officials still haunts me! today!

    Group/discussion followers are sure to find value in your QRZ content. Here's hoping our paths cross down the log to share mutual experiences, respect for community, dogs and tasty beer.
  • Kurt S.
    Kurt
    Kurt S.
    Director Business Development, Marketing
    Well said Sir!!!! Yes, appears we do have much in common. My time in Indonesia and Malaysia building HF backbones to Viasat was a great experience. We knew the cost would be to excessive with satcom so used HF as the redundant method. We set it up for voice and data including Radar screen shots, AIS info and more back to their base for analyzing. I was with the Trident Surveillance installs along the Sumatra and Indo sides of the Malaccan Straits. Anti Piracy they were. Spent a lot of time with the air side as well to make the air/ground connects easier to understand. I would be honored to share a jar of spirits some day with you and exchange stories. My email is on QRZ or via this medium. I'm between jobs at the moment but should have something going soon. Then back to travel and an opportunity to meet in the future. Semper Paratus.

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